Friday, May 30, 2008
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I have hesitated to publicly discuss my experiences with Vista, acting under the theory that if you can't say something nice you shouldn't say anything at all. But at this point I have some nice things to say (though not all nice), and I think there's some value in sharing my experiences and thoughts.

On the whole, my experience with Vista has been decidedly mixed.

Vista is very pretty. It is clearly the future in many ways (especially around IIS 7 and WAS and security in general). And it has some nice usability features – like a far better replacement for ntbackup, and pre-enabled shadowing (so you can retrieve old files if you lose/overwrite them). And quite a few OS features are easier to find/use than in XP (once you get used to the changes).

However, it is slower and more resource-intensive than XP. So you can’t upgrade from XP and expect the same level of performance or responsiveness on the same hardware. If your hardware is more than a few months old, I really can't recommend an upgrade.

I upgraded my (now 2 year old) laptop when Vista came out, and have been generally displeased with the results. It is running Vista Business. However, as Vista has aged Microsoft has issued patches/fixes/updates that have helped with stability and performance. I would say that it is now tolerable, or at least I’ve learned to live with it. While it is workable, it isn't really satisfying - to me at least. My laptop is a dual core machine with 3 gigs of RAM and a low-end GPU.

One thing I'll note is that upgrading the laptop from 2 to 3 gigs of RAM made a huge difference in performance. Vista really likes memory, and the more you can get in your machine the happier you'll be.

I didn’t upgrade my desktop to Vista until I replaced my desktop machine. I do almost all my work on this machine, and wasn't about to deal with the performance issues on a constant basis.

My new desktop machine, which is running Vista Ultimate, is a quad core with 4 gigs of RAM and a high end GPU. I find that Vista runs quite adequately on this (admittedly high-end) machine. My current bottlenecks are memory speed (but DDR3 is too expensive) and disk IO (but 10k RPM disks are too loud – I’m one of those “silent computer” nuts).

I have colleagues who are running Vista 64 bit. Apparently that is faster and more stable (partially due to fewer iffy drivers, and because 64 bit gets all your 4+ gigs of RAM). But I'm a gamer, so I'm kind of stuck with 32 bit until there are 64 bit versions of Battlefield 2142, Supreme Commander, Sim City 4 and Civ IV :)

One thing that has really helped my Vista experience is the discovery of TeraCopy. Vista is notorious for slow file copies (especially when copying multiple files). It is a bit sad that Vista's slow file copies have enabled a product niche for something like a file copy utility (how 1990 is that!), but whatever, it works.

I have UAC turned on. I realize many devs turn it off. But if our users are to live with it, I think developers should too. And personally I think it should be illegal for Microsoft employees to turn it off – they should know what they are doing to their customers.

The thing is, I have not found UAC to be overly troublesome. Yes, there are some extra dialogs when installing software – but that’s not a big deal imo, and is an acceptable trade-off for the security. The bigger frustration with UAC are simpler things like trying to create a favorite in IE, or copy a shortcut to the Programs menu – both of which turn out to be really hard due to UAC.

I have done some work with VS 2005 under Vista. You have to run as admin to debug web apps, which means you can't double-click sln files. There may have been some other quirks too, I don't recall. Long ago I created a virtual machine with XP where I have VS 2005 installed, and any 2005 work is done there (for .NET 2.0/3.0 - primarily maintenance for CSLA .NET 3.0).

For months now I've been using VS 2008, largely under Vista. The experience is quite smooth. You do have to run 2008 as admin to debug a web app running in IIS, but not in the dev web server. It really isn’t a big deal to run as admin for VS if you need to debug a web app. This is the intended “escape hatch” for developers that need to do things a normal user should not be able to do. It is a little frustrating to not be able to double-click a sln file, but I can deal with that small issue.

And for WPF or Windows Forms work (and a lot of web work where the dev server can be used) then you don't need to run as admin at all.

In the final analysis, if you have a relatively new machine with high-end hardware and lots of RAM, then I think Vista is a fine OS, even for a developer. But if your machine is more than a few months old, has less than 3 gigs of RAM or has an older GPU, I'd hesitate to leave XP.

Friday, May 30, 2008 10:45:18 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)  #    Disclaimer  |  Comments [17]  | 
Friday, May 30, 2008 12:44:35 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
Where is the "far better replacement for ntbackup"? I just bought my wife a new laptop that came with Vista Home Premium. The Vista backup utility only lets me select categories of files, not individual files or folders. This is an improvement?
Friday, May 30, 2008 2:10:56 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I guess it depends on what you are after in terms of backup.

I'm happy to have it do full backups to an external USB drive. Rather than having to create an ntbackup job and then figure out a cryptic command line to put into the Windows scheduled tasks list like in XP, the Vista wizard just made it work. Every night in the wee hours it does a backup - a full one once every month (from what I can see) and incrementals in between.

Or in the case of my laptop, it does the same thing to a drive on my server. I've noticed that when I'm offline (traveling) it just waits until I'm back on my network and then does the backup.
Friday, May 30, 2008 2:29:56 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
Overall, I think that Vista could be the biggest mistake in the software industry over the last decade! For a company to work for 5 years on THE upgrade path for their operating system, and have the reviews be "passable", that doesn't bode well. I would have to agree with your general assessment, but overall I think Vista has been less stable for me than the XP system that it replaced. I will admit that the file shadowing saved me once, but I'm not sure that has been worth the more frequent reboots because the "Windows" Logo key quit working/IE keeps hanging/network name resolution quit working/insert random problem here.

Rick Arthur
Rick Arthur
Friday, May 30, 2008 4:01:48 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
You should try 64bit. I run on several machine including my primary dev and home machines. I am able to run a wide variety of games from World of Warcraft, Battlefield 2, to Unreal Tournament 3 without a problem. Actually the only time I had trouble with a 64bit machine was trying to install a Fujitsu scanner. I was able to rig some older 64bit Win2k3 drivers and finally got basic scanning to work.
Paul Czywczynski
Friday, May 30, 2008 6:15:48 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I absolutely second your recommendation of Teracopy. I've been using it for quite some time now (since well before SP1), and love it. Everybody running Vista should check it out.
Friday, May 30, 2008 8:21:26 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
>> And personally I think it should be illegal for Microsoft employees to turn it off – they should know what they are doing to their customers.


HILARIOUS :)
Friday, May 30, 2008 9:39:25 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I second Paul's comments on the games. I'm actually running Server 2008 64bit and have had no problems running WoW, UT3 and COD4. I had to fix the msi installer to get UT3 to install, but other then that, it's been smooth sailing.
Saturday, May 31, 2008 11:22:33 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I hear all of these bad reviews about Vista, and have to wonder if they are about the same OS I am using. I have been using Vista Enterprise (64 bit) for 15 months now and have had very few problems. My biggest have been waiting for a HP LJ 1022 vista driver only to discover that the Laserjet 6L drivers worked just as well, and a flaky video driver that was resolved by upgrading to a better video card and driver. I built the PC myself with 2 Gigs of RAM and an Intel 2.4ghz dual core processor (4MB of level 2 cache). Don't use it for email or Skype, but do use it for all of my VS2005 development. I know all new OS's have their problems, but I've had far less than I had with XP. I can only speak from experience, Vista is pretty reliable and quite quick, certainly faster than my XP Laptop. Yeah I know, to be fair I should upgrade my XP Laptop to Vista to see how it really runs, but the laptop is over four year old now, so it's getting to the end of it's useful life anyway.
Steve Graham
Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:42:47 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
So Steve,

Your printer doesn't work with Vista. Your video driver doesn't work, and you had to upgrade your video card. You don't use it for email or skype.
And you're not having any problems.!

Funny! You should definitely turn your UAC on.

SM
Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:52:59 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
sahil,

Perhaps I should have been a little clearer:
1. My printer does work with Vista - the problem was with HP taking their time in providing a Vista compatable driver when they had one that worked perfectly well all the time. Not the fault of Vista.
2. The video card was a pretty cheap card based around the ATI Radeon X300. Upgrade to GEForce 7600 solved the problem. I have been building my own PC's for at least 10 years, (but not in industrial quantities ;-), and have had issues with video cards irrespective of the OS. Experience shows that cheaper cards are usually the more problematic. Not something I would blame on Vista.
3. I do actually use my Vista PC for email, just not very much because this XP laptop is my main email/skype PC, and I don't have the time to migrate. The reason is not because I doubt Vista's reliability or speed. My colleague uses Vista Home Premium for Skype and email without problems.

Maybe I will see the Vista problems when we start testing...

Steve
Steve Graham
Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:17:39 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I've been using Vista (32-bit) for a little over a year and, save for Nvidia video drivers issues (I have to stick to a May 2007 version - so far upgrades have frozen the machine), it's been rock solid. I have a system similar to Steve above - 2Gb, 2.4Ghz Core2Duo processor. My laptop has 2Gb and a 1.9Mhz AMD Dual Core processor, works very well there too. The PC has all this stuff running: Oracle Express 10G, SQL Server 2005 Express, Apache, MySQL 4, Perforce server, Twonkymedia (multimedia server for my D-Link DSM-520 unit), and quite a bit of "resident" software (i.e. e-mail, password manager, sometimes a media player, the World Community Grid client, etc... etc...) Hell, I even have Norton Internet Security 2008 running on this, and the machine is very responsive. Add a few sidebar gadgets as well. The last time I had any kind of problem was when I updated the video driver by mistake - fortunately I keep a copy of the one that works handy.

Oh and I'm sometimes running two copies of Visual Studio 2008 on it, again without problems. So far Vista has been more solid for me than XP ever was. Sorry. :) And let's not forget, just a few months before Vista came out, people were still bitching at XP, and now it's as if it's the best thing since sliced bread. Wow! I remember having to wait for the first service pack before I could use XP (it just wouldn't work on my PC), while Vista was solid here even before SP1. Ah OK, I'm done. ;)
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:47:08 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
<blockquote cite="Rocky">But I'm a gamer, so I'm kind of stuck with 32 bit until there are 64 bit versions of Battlefield 2142...</blockquote>

Others have mentioned it, and I'll reiterate: running a 64-bit OS is not a problem for 32-bit games. I've been running WinXP x64 for a little over a year on a Pentium D 3.4GHz, NVidia GeForce4 7950, 4GB DDR2 667MHz RAM, 24" widescreen (1) and 17" CRT (2) displays. It runs great. There's a small performance hit, but not substantial, considering how much I multitask. I run World of Warcraft in a maximized window on (1) and Ventrilo, Winamp, Firefox, and MediaPlayer on (2) with no problems. It also runs UT3, Team Fortress 2 and Half-life 2 very well.

If your hardware is comparable to mine (or better), I'd highly recommend moving to 64-bit (though Vista may warrant a better video card and perhaps a little more RAM).
Tyler B
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:33:17 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
You should read this article on coding horror about Actual Performance and Perceived Performance of Vista file copying. It's pretty interesting.
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:23:17 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I am able to run CIV IV on Vista 64 without problem.
Dave B
Friday, June 06, 2008 4:11:37 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
To get your 'run as admin' shortcut double-click, try:
1) right click your shortcut
2) select Properties
3) On the Shortcut tab, click the Advanced button
4) Check the 'Run as Administrator' checkbox
5) Click OK, OK

Works for me.
Jonathan McComb
Monday, June 16, 2008 3:08:38 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I'm a gamer and developer myself, and of course I take my gaming seriously. :)

That is why I dual boot. I have one OS for gaming, and another for everything else. I prefer to keep my gaming OS minimalistic, keeping just what I need, like the games of course, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, sound and graphics drivers. No printer drivers, no IM clients, no MS Office. I want as much free resources as possible.

Thanks for the heads-up on TeraCopy. I'll have a look at it right away.
Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:12:04 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
For the record I run vista ultimate on a 2ghz dual core with 2gb ram (was 1.5 till a few minutes ago), and Vista I haven't seen any noticeable performance drop since upgrading from XP a couple weeks ago. I do have a couple programs that simply will not work with Vista (confirmed by numerous Google searches), and I don't like the fact that you can no longer move voice output to a usb headset and sound output to the speakers but other than those two things I have had no issues with V-Ultimate whatsoever.
bjhartshorn
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