Friday, March 11, 2005
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I was going to stay out of this, really I was. But it appears to be spinning out of control, with the press jumping in and spouting inaccurate conclusions left and right…

 

I am a Visual Basic MVP, and I do not favor the idea of merging the VB6 IDE into Visual Studio 2007 (or whatever comes after 2005). I’m afraid I see that as a ridiculous idea, for many of the reasons Paul Vick lists.

 

I’ve been in this industry for a reasonable amount of time – nearly 20 years. Heck, my first job on the VAX was porting code from the PDP-11 to the VAX. But there were still companies running that PDP-11 software ten years after the hardware was no longer manufactured.

 

The lesson? Companies run old, dead technology.

 

Why?

 

Because it works. Companies are nothing if not pragmatic. And that’s OK. But none of those companies expected DEC to support the long-dead PDP. They built their own support network through user groups and a sub-industry of recyclers who sold refurbished parts for years and years after nothing new was made.

 

VB6 today is the PDP-11 of 20 years ago. It is done, and support is ending. (though technically Microsoft has support options through 2008 I guess)

 

And you know what? Companies will continue to run VB6.

 

Why?

 

Because it works. Microsoft would prefer if you upgraded, but you don’t have to. And that’s OK. But like the people running the PDP-11’s, you can’t expect Microsoft to support a dead tool. Especially when they’ve provided a far superior alternative in the form of VB 2005.

 

If you want to keep running VB6 that’s cool. But like anyone using dead technology, you have to accept the costs of handling your own support. Of getting “refurbished” parts (in this case developers and components).

 

I’ll bet you that none of those old companies are still running a PDP-11 today. Why? Because eventually the cost of running a dead technology outweighs the cost of moving forward. The business eventually decides that moving forward is the cost effective answer and they do it.

 

This will be true for VB6 as well. It is simply a cost/benefit decision at a business level, nothing more. For some time to come, it will be cost-effective to maintain VB6 code, even though the technology is dead. Eventually – perhaps even 10 years later – the cost differential will tip and it will be more effective to move to a more modern and supported technology.

 

Other than a few odd ducks, I very much doubt that most developers would choose to continue to use VB6. Certainly they wouldn’t make that choice after using VB.NET or VB 2005 for a few days. I’ve seen countless people make the migration, and none of them are pining for the “good old days of VB6” after using VB.NET. Mostly because VB.NET is just so damn much fun!

 

And if you press the VB6-focused MVP’s, by and large you’ll find that they are staying in VB6 for business reasons, not technical ones. Their customer bases are pragmatic and conservative. Their customer bases are still at the point where the cost of running a dead technology is lower than switching to a modern technology. And that’s OK. That’s business.

 

What irritates me is when people let emotion into the discussion. This shouldn’t be a dogmatic discussion.

 

It is business, pure and simple! Deal with it.

Friday, March 11, 2005 3:28:31 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
Bravo! "Odd ducks" was a nice way of putting it BTW. ;-)
Friday, March 11, 2005 5:07:54 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
> I’ve seen countless people make the migration, and none of them are pining for the “good old days of VB6” after using VB.NET. Mostly because VB.NET is just so damn much fun!

yeah, but very few of those VB developers making the migration to .NET are ACTUALLY USING VB.NET -- and that's the underlying concern!

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000235.html

Forget the petition-- this is /really/ about VB losing its stature in the world of development. It's fairly clear that VB, as a language, is in decline; it will never be as important or influential as it once was (due to continuing loss of developer mindshare), and that's a little sad.
Friday, March 11, 2005 6:32:57 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
Well said Rocky.

Jeff:
In the words of the immortal Sherman T. Potter "Bull Cookies!"

$/SET SHAMELESS_PLUG_MODE ON

My own take on this situation is over on my blog. It's fascinating and everytime someone reads it, a fairy gets her wings...

$/SET SHAMELESS_PLUG_MODE OFF

Saturday, March 12, 2005 11:27:12 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I agree that VB is in decline because it seems (at least to me) that MS is pushing C# a little more than VB.NET. After a brief stint with VB.NET, I converted to C#. Why? Because of the $$. I was offered more as a C# developer than as a VB developer. The consequences? I instantly became conceited and have continuous nightmares of {}'s in my sleep...
Cory Naegle
Monday, March 14, 2005 1:23:05 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I have to disagree on something here. Companies trying to justify running a "Dead" or "Dying" technology is not OK. In my 8 years of developing I have seen companies have to go through incredibly painful "revolutions" in software development, because some CIO, or worse yet CFO thought it was the better to saty with what was comfortable. I really feel that it is wiser to evolve your software as technology changes, keeps things loosely coupled, don't tie yourself to one solution/technology, and constantly challenge yourself to change. Thats just my humble opinion and fantasy world.
Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:54:39 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I'd have to agree with Jeff's factual take on things. I see Microsoft doing 90% of its demos in VB.NET, but 75% of the .NET ads I'm reading today are looking for C# skills.

But I would disagree in that I think the only thing that will keep VB a viable language going forward is distancing yourself from VB6. Let's be honest, VB6 was already in a world of hurt compared to java since it wasn't fully OO. Only .NET brings VB into the realm of acceptability as a world-class language.

So Rocky, it seems to me if you're going to get emotional about VB it ought to be directed towards helping kill VB6 not trying to prop it up and pretending it's more than it ever was, a great tool for its time, but one whose time has come and gone.
Daniel Billingsley
Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:33:18 AM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
Nicely put Rocky. I agree with your point of view 100%. I program in VB.net almost everyday and would never consider going back to old VB6. Long live VB.net!
Jonathan Miller
Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:13:46 PM (Central Standard Time, UTC-06:00)
I think you have nailed down the basic problem. Businesses stay with older technology because it "works", the costs are already absorbed, and the learning curve is in the mature life cycle (profit mode). But, it eventually catches up with the business and they must absorb it. Well put.
Joey Brenn
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